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Welcome to Swindled.

1:26

This is a solicitation. Have

1:29

you heard about the recent bonus episodes that

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are only available to valued listeners

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at valuedlistener.com? No? Well,

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allow me. There's one about the mom

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and there's a new lottery related bonus

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Bye.

3:04

This episode of swindled may

3:06

contain graphic descriptions or audio

3:08

recordings of disturbing events which may

3:11

not be suitable for all audiences. Listener

3:14

discretion is advised.

3:16

There's

3:24

a fun new game from the Texas lottery that's sweeping through the

3:26

state. It's called Lotto Texas. Just select six numbers

3:28

from 1 to 50 on a place list. It only costs a dollar but you could win

3:30

millions. This

3:43

is the ballot of Billy Bob Harrell jr.

3:46

A man who won a 31 million dollar jackpot

3:49

playing the Texas lottery.

3:51

It was a stroke of luck that most people can

3:53

only dream about but not for Billy

3:55

Bob. A few days before his death

3:57

he described winning the lottery as the worst

3:59

thing that ever happened to him. Billy

4:03

Bob Harrell Jr. was a former Pentecostal

4:05

preacher living in Humboldt, Texas, just

4:08

outside of Houston. He was 47 years

4:10

old and entering his third year of restocking

4:13

electrical supplies at Home Depot, not

4:15

by choice. Billy Bob had lost

4:17

his long time job at a printing shop when

4:20

it shut down in the early 90s. He

4:22

hated his current profession. Struggling

4:25

to provide for his wife, Barbara Jean

4:27

and his three teenage children weighed heavy on

4:29

Billy

4:29

Bob Harrell's mind. His bank account

4:32

was consistently overdrawn. His

4:34

bills were constantly overdue.

4:36

Man, it sure would be nice to win

4:38

the lottery. Billy Bob Jr. fantasized.

4:42

He thought about it all the time, his son Billy Bob

4:44

III told the Houston Press. More

4:46

than anything else, he fantasized

4:48

about quitting his job. He was having a

4:50

hard time with his boss and wanted to do the

4:53

take this job and shove it routine. Billy

4:56

Bob Harrell Jr. played the Texas lottery

4:58

religiously every Wednesday and Saturday.

5:01

He alternated between using the birth dates of

5:03

his children as his lucky numbers and

5:05

a random computer generated combo. Realistically,

5:08

he never thought it would work. But it did.

5:12

Billy

5:12

Bob Harrell Jr. returned home from work

5:14

on Sunday, June 29, 1997. He plopped into his well-worn recliner

5:19

and opened the newspaper to compare his quick pick

5:22

numbers to the previous night's drawing. 3-11-16-28-40-44.

5:24

Wait a second. Let me read that again.

5:26

3-11-16-28-40-44. Unbelievable.

5:35

Billy

5:40

Bob was holding all six of the winning numbers

5:43

in his hand.

5:44

Billy Bob III, get in here, summoned

5:47

his father. Am I crazy or

5:49

do these numbers match? They match

5:51

alright, Billy Bob III verified.

5:54

At this point, Barbara Jean heard the commotion

5:56

and entered the living room to check the numbers for a third

5:58

time. They match. she agreed.

6:01

The Harrell family sat there in stunned silence

6:04

for the rest of the night.

6:07

The next day, still in disbelief,

6:09

Billy Bob Jr. called the Texas Lottery Headquarters,

6:12

which confirmed that he held the only

6:14

jackpot winning ticket for the June 28, 1997 Lotto,

6:18

Texas drawing. The grand prize

6:20

was $31 million. Congratulations, sir. Billy

6:25

Bob III told the Houston Press that the family

6:27

immediately stashed the winning ticket in a safe

6:30

deposit box at the bank. Then

6:32

he says his father contacted an AM radio

6:34

financial talk show host named Steve Drake,

6:37

who put them in touch with an attorney who agreed

6:39

to accompany the Harrell family to Austin

6:41

to cash the ticket.

6:43

In almost every lottery, the

6:45

winner is given the option of accepting a

6:48

smaller lump sum up front or

6:50

being paid the total grand prize amount in

6:52

installments over time. Billy

6:55

Bob Harrell Jr. chose the annuity, $1.24 million

6:57

every year for 25

7:00

years.

7:01

The Texas Lottery paid him the first installment

7:04

on the spot. Back

7:15

home, everybody knew Billy Bob Harrell Jr.

7:17

was the winner. This was 20 years before

7:19

the state of Texas began allowing lottery

7:21

winners to remain anonymous. That's

7:24

okay. Billy Bob kinda lacked

7:26

the attention.

7:27

And he started spending. Billy

7:29

Bob purchased a ranch, antique cars,

7:31

and art. He bought at least six homes

7:34

and new cars for his wife and kids. He

7:36

took the entire family on a Hawaiian vacation.

7:39

Billy Bob was charitable too.

7:41

He gave 10% of that first lottery

7:43

check to his church, and he lent a hand to

7:45

every member of the congregation in need.

7:48

It felt good giving back. But

7:50

then it got old. Because it

7:52

never stopped. The Harrells had to change

7:54

their phone number seven times because people kept

7:57

calling and asking for financial help. Other

7:59

people

7:59

People would wait for them outside their houses and

8:02

approach. There were endless handwritten

8:04

letters begging for a gift. Their

8:06

daughter was dying or their house had burned

8:08

down. Little Timmy's spine was

8:10

crooked. One woman even reportedly

8:13

approached Barbara Jean Harrell at a Walmart

8:15

and demanded she repay the $500 she had

8:18

spent on losing tickets for the lottery

8:20

that the Harrells had won. Barbara

8:22

Jean couldn't take it anymore. In

8:24

February 1998, just

8:26

eight months after winning the lottery, she filed

8:29

for divorce. The fortune had disrupted

8:31

their life irreparably. Billy

8:34

Bob already had a young girlfriend that worked at

8:36

the pharmacy. He even bought her a car

8:38

and jewelry. Barbara Jean took half

8:40

the jackpot and started a new life.

8:43

Billy Bob continued to spend and

8:45

his half of the annual installment,

8:48

about $600,000, was no

8:50

longer enough to sustain his lifestyle. So

8:53

he cut a deal with a company out of Bethesda,

8:55

Maryland called Stone Street Capital.

8:57

Stone Street offered Billy Bob $2.25 million

9:01

in cash in exchange for 10 years

9:03

of his lottery annuity worth about $6 million.

9:06

It was a horrible deal for Billy Bob no

9:08

matter which way he looked at it. But

9:11

desperate for cash, he agreed to it, even

9:14

though it violated the Texas Lottery's

9:16

rules. Those rules were circumvented

9:18

by signing over Billy's half of the trust to

9:20

a company called Trust Corp America Incorporated.

9:24

And then bonds would be purchased through a different company

9:26

called H&H Worldwide to service

9:28

the debt or something like that.

9:31

Billy Bob always described a different arrangement.

9:33

It's not clear he even understood the agreement.

9:36

But that was the least of Billy Bob's worries. Less

9:39

than a month and a half later, the $2.25

9:42

million he'd received from Stone Street Capital

9:44

for his half of the trust had already been

9:47

depleted. Billy Bob was depressed

9:49

beyond belief. He lost 50 pounds. You

9:52

could watch his face age if you stared

9:54

at him long enough. Billy Bob Harold

9:57

Jr. tried to reconcile with his ex-wife Barbara

9:59

Jean, but... she was not interested. The

10:01

divorce was official. However,

10:04

Barbara Jean did relent a little and agreed

10:06

to have dinner with Billy Bob and the children as

10:08

a family at her house in Kingwood

10:11

on Saturday, May 22nd, 1999.

10:18

According to the Houston Press, that afternoon,

10:21

Billy Bob stopped by his daughter's workplace

10:23

to pick up Keys to Barbara Jean's house so

10:26

he could drop off some flowers before everyone else

10:28

arrived, he said. A few minutes

10:30

later, Billy Bob was unlocking the front

10:32

door to that house. It was empty.

10:34

It smelled like a past life. Before

10:37

the money, before the dissolution of his

10:39

marriage, before the lottery had

10:41

ruined everything.

10:43

Billy Bob paused momentarily while walking

10:46

up the stairs to look at the family photos

10:48

that no longer included him. And

10:50

then he made his way into the master bedroom. He

10:53

closed and locked the door behind him. Next,

10:56

Billy Bob Harrell Jr. stripped naked

10:59

and loaded the shotgun he had brought with him. He

11:01

pressed the butt of the gun against the floor. The

11:04

barrel dug into his chest. Billy

11:06

Bob stretched forward to poke the trigger

11:08

and ended it all. When

11:10

a Billy Bob's sons kicked down the door an hour and

11:13

a half later, they found three handwritten

11:15

notes near their dead father's body. The

11:18

one addressed to Barbara Jean read, quote, I

11:20

didn't want this. I just

11:23

wanted you. Billy

11:25

Bob Harrell Jr.'s official cause of death was

11:27

suicide, according to the Harris County

11:29

Medical Examiner's Office. But

11:31

according to Billy Bob Jr.'s parents, there

11:34

must have been foul play. Their son

11:36

was a devoutly religious man who would never

11:38

do such a thing.

11:40

That would be almost hypocritical.

11:43

Billy Bob's parents were also concerned that Junior

11:46

had promised to pay for the new house and motor home

11:48

they'd just purchased. And he hadn't bothered

11:50

to file any paperwork to put them on the trust.

11:53

A bitter family dispute arose when

11:55

the grandchildren refused to honor their dead

11:57

father's promise to his parents. There

11:59

wasn't much left.

11:59

of his winnings anyway. In fact, after

12:02

his state taxes, Billy Bob Jr.'s

12:04

children would probably owe the

12:06

government money. The curse

12:09

of the lottery lives on.

12:13

There

12:13

are a thousand stories like Billy Bob Harold Jr.'s

12:16

or worse about lottery winners

12:18

losing control, about them getting

12:20

robbed, getting poisoned, getting

12:22

kidnapped, murdered, and buried under a

12:24

concrete slab in some lady's backyard.

12:27

That doesn't mean you should stop playing. Please

12:30

don't. Keep that dream alive

12:32

because I need the content, and lucky

12:35

for you, these days there is a team

12:37

of professionals standing by to assist

12:39

your transition into one of the wealthiest

12:41

people on the planet. Believe it or

12:43

not, it's more complicated than it

12:46

looks.

12:47

Simply put, if you win

12:49

the lottery, get help. And

12:52

most of the problems occur when somebody

12:54

tries to do this on their own, right? Billy will give

12:56

you the money whether you have a professional team or

12:58

not. So I've seen people

13:00

walk in the next day with their family,

13:02

you know, have

13:05

no anonymity whatsoever, giving everybody's

13:07

names, the schools they go to, and those are the people

13:09

who are really easy targets.

13:11

And those are the ones who are targets for, you

13:15

know, con men coming. That's

13:17

Jason Courland, one of several lawyers

13:20

in the United States, to specialize in

13:22

protecting lottery winners' privacy and

13:24

investments from the threats of financial

13:26

mismanagement and manipulation. He's

13:29

represented some of the biggest winners to date, and

13:32

he's developed a tried and true plan to

13:34

avoid the all too common pitfalls encountered

13:37

by instantaneous multimillionaires.

13:39

Jason Courland would argue that he's

13:41

the first person you should call when you

13:44

hit the jackpot. Why? Because

13:46

he can tell you precisely what to do to

13:49

avoid disaster and because you

13:51

can't trust anybody. Well, you

13:53

can't trust anybody but him, of

13:55

course. An attorney steals

13:58

a fortune from the high profile

13:59

lottery winners he promised to protect

14:02

on this episode of Swindled.

14:31

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16:03

Across America with Mega Jackpot,

16:05

it's Mega Millions. What's up

16:07

America? I'm John Crode. It's Tuesday, October 23rd

16:10

and tonight's Mega Millions Jackpot is a record-breaking $1.6

16:12

billion to win that jackpot. You

16:16

must have seen these five white balls plus that

16:18

gold Mega Ball. Now, let's see if I can

16:20

make you a billionaire tonight. Our

16:23

first winning number tonight is 28. That's followed by 70. Up

16:28

next we have five. That's

16:30

followed by... 62 and

16:34

your final white ball for this Tuesday evening is 65. Now

16:37

for the Mega Ball. That Mega Ball number is five. Again,

16:39

tonight's winning numbers are 28.75, 62, 65 and the gold Mega Ball is five. Now,

16:44

no match is lost. Six numbers Friday, Jackpot could be $2

16:46

billion. Beth

16:49

Smith couldn't believe her luck.

16:52

Feelings of astonishment, disbelief,

16:55

joy and anxiety rushed over her

16:57

all at once.

16:58

She was the only person in America to

17:01

match all five numbers plus the Mega Ball in

17:03

the October 23rd, 2018 Mega Millions lottery.

17:07

She won the entire $1.5 billion Jackpot. The

17:12

chance of winning it big was slim in

17:14

the vicinity of $1.300 million. That

17:17

means you're around 100 times more likely

17:20

to be killed by a shark than strike it rich.

17:22

Beth

17:23

Smith just became the largest single

17:26

ticket lotto winner in US history. There

17:29

had been a higher Jackpot back in 2016, but

17:31

that one was split three ways.

17:33

This was a historic amount of

17:35

money. Beth Smith retraced

17:38

the steps in her mind that led her there. The

17:40

decision to take the scenic route on her trip

17:42

to Greenville, South Carolina, the day she

17:44

bought the ticket. That trip let her

17:46

pass the sign for the Jackpot in the window of KC

17:49

Mart number 7 in Sensenville, which

17:51

compelled her to stop.

17:53

Inside Beth's simple act of kindness

17:56

to allow a fellow customer to get in line

17:58

in front of her to buy their own computer.

17:59

computer-generated lottery ticket. Each

18:02

little choice like that was the difference

18:04

between a normal life with a cute

18:06

little 401k in a savings account

18:09

and becoming incomprehensibly wealthy.

18:12

It was a lot to wrap her mind around all

18:14

at once. To help hammer

18:16

home the reality,

18:18

the next day Beth Smith decided to

18:20

drive by that convenience store in Simpsonville

18:22

where a celebration was taking place.

18:25

If no one was there I would say, okay

18:27

well this was a disaster, we made a mistake

18:29

and I'd drive home and all would be

18:31

good, Beth later said.

18:34

But as we went by the convenience store, there

18:36

was helicopters, there was every piece of media,

18:38

there was locals, you know, national,

18:40

I so badly wanted to get out of there.

18:43

I wanted to go under the seat. I

18:45

became anxious. Welcome

18:48

to Simpsonville, South

18:51

Carolina.

18:52

It is a big,

18:56

beautiful day and a

18:58

very lucky day for

19:00

one ticket

19:03

holder. We don't know at this point

19:06

whether it's one person or

19:08

a group of person or anything about

19:10

the identity of the player.

19:13

But we do know where the winning

19:15

ticket was sold. So

19:18

if the winner is out there today

19:20

listening to us, we

19:23

would like to say to you, take a deep

19:25

breath, put that

19:27

ticket in a secure location,

19:31

consult with a trusted advisor,

19:35

a legal advisor, a trusted

19:38

financial advisor. Take

19:41

a few days. Take

19:43

that deep breath again. Call

19:46

the lottery. We will tell

19:48

you who to go to, how

19:51

to do it. It takes time. You

19:54

have up to 180 days to cash the

19:56

tickets. But again,

19:58

we've got to do it. you

20:00

to play responsibly but we also

20:02

encourage you to win responsibly. Beth

20:06

Smith planned to win responsibly. The

20:09

winner had not revealed herself but the owner

20:11

of KC Mart number seven Chirag

20:13

Patel was on hand for a speech.

20:16

He was excited because his store would receive $50,000

20:19

for selling the winning ticket. Side

20:21

note, Chirag Patel would

20:23

later be arrested and charged with five

20:25

counts of tax evasion. We are

20:27

so glad to be here you know it's good attention

20:30

and good for the community you know whoever

20:33

is the winner is hopefully spend

20:35

that money locally and you

20:37

know do some good good stuff for the community.

20:40

Thank you.

20:42

Beth Smith didn't dare out herself

20:44

at that ceremony. She felt like people

20:46

were staring at her like they knew.

20:48

Beth's first priority was to secure her

20:51

family's safety and anonymity

20:53

which the state of South Carolina permitted.

20:56

Beth Smith and her husband Steve Smith,

20:58

which are not their real names by the way, stashed

21:01

the winning ticket in a safe deposit box

21:04

and brainstormed their next steps. There

21:06

wasn't any reason to rush the process.

21:09

South Carolina gives winners 180 days to

21:11

claim their prizes and the Smith family

21:14

was not in dire need.

21:16

Beth and Steve were in their late 50s. They've

21:18

been married almost 36 years.

21:21

Beth was an insurance underwriter. Steve

21:23

was a lawyer.

21:24

They were living well enough already but one

21:27

and a half billion dollars was a grotesque

21:29

amount of money to manage.

21:30

The Smiths took their time getting their affairs

21:33

in order.

21:34

Weeks passed. Remember

21:36

that massive jackpot somebody

21:38

won in our state a couple of weeks ago or months

21:41

ago now? Well nobody

21:43

has claimed the prize and

21:45

in case you forgot it was a 1.5 billion

21:48

dollar mega millions jackpot ticket.

21:52

Then

21:52

months. This person

21:54

had still not come forward. I'm getting

21:56

nervous sirs. I think it's in the trash. I'm get

21:58

is it in the trash?

21:59

The

22:03

winner still had not come forward. Almost

22:05

everyone in South Carolina had a theory about what

22:07

happened.

22:08

Some were sure the winner had dropped dead from a heart

22:10

attack the moment they checked their ticket.

22:12

One man said he actually knew the winner and

22:15

they were on the run from the police and couldn't pass

22:17

a background check. Of course, there

22:19

were less sensational theories too,

22:21

such as the ticket had been thrown away, destroyed

22:24

in a washing machine, or forgotten in a

22:27

car visor.

22:28

Unbeknownst to everybody, the truth was

22:30

even more boring. We're

22:33

still very excited here at the South Carolina

22:35

Education Lottery. Because this is

22:38

such an unprecedented sum of money,

22:40

we recognize that it might take the

22:42

winner a little bit longer than normal.

22:45

But there's really not a normal when

22:47

you're talking about a $1.5 billion jackpot. There's

22:50

nothing to compare that to.

22:53

As the months passed, doubt that the ticket

22:55

would ever be claimed became the prevailing sentiment

22:58

in South Carolina. The state government

23:00

even removed these $61 million in

23:02

income taxes it would have collected from the

23:05

prize from its proposed budget. It's

23:07

a billion dollar mystery that could cost

23:10

the state of South Carolina

23:11

tens of millions. It

23:14

was now March 2019.

23:16

One hundred twenty days had passed since the drawing,

23:18

and still no winner.

23:20

The clock was ticking.

23:22

Meanwhile, Beth and Steve Smith had everything

23:24

under control.

23:25

We considered attorneys, we considered

23:27

financial advisors, we considered accountants,

23:30

we considered, you know, investment firms,

23:33

that kind of thing, Beth said.

23:35

They'd heard the horror stories. The family's

23:37

main concern remained to stay anonymous when

23:39

they sought out professional advice and

23:42

they found it on morning television.

23:44

An attorney who was specialized in this exact

23:47

situation. His name was Jason

23:49

Courland. He called himself the

23:51

lottery lawyer. Listen,

23:54

anyone can take the winning ticket. Go to lottery headquarters,

23:57

do a press conference, and get the prize. However.

23:59

There are a whole host of questions that arise

24:02

from winning a jackpot. Do you want to limit

24:04

your exposure to the media? What happens

24:06

at the press conference? Do you want to create

24:08

media posts for your state? Do you have

24:10

something to worry about your safety? Do you want

24:12

to make sure you're running open? Would you like to join

24:15

the media or the press conference? Would you like to join

24:17

the media or the press conference? Would you like to join the media or the press

24:19

conference? Would you like to direct yourself above yourself?

24:22

When we represent winners, we handle all of these

24:24

issues for them. While at the same time, making sure

24:26

they are comfortable with every move that is made. Every

24:28

winner is different and has different

24:29

goals and needs. A good attorney will

24:32

create a strategy around these goals and needs. While

24:34

at the same time giving the client the protection and

24:36

peace of mind to get through this awesome, yet

24:38

stressful time. If you are a winner, give

24:41

us a call or visit our website and let us help

24:43

you make this as amazing an experience

24:45

as it should be.

24:48

There was so much to think about.

24:50

Jason Kurland was on, you know, the morning

24:52

shows and the like. Beth Smith recalled.

24:55

And it looked like he certainly knew about Lagerie.

24:57

He had a specialty in lottery winners.

25:00

And you know, we looked online and he seemed

25:02

very capable. I am

25:04

capable. Jason Kurland probably told

25:06

the Smiths when they called him from a burner phone

25:09

in December 2018.

25:10

He agreed to meet in Las Vegas to discuss

25:12

their next steps.

25:14

The Smiths told him they wanted the lump sum of $877,784,124 before

25:16

taxes. And

25:23

they wanted to donate a hefty portion to

25:25

charity. For a $200,000 intermediary

25:27

fee.

25:30

Jason Kurland arranged a meeting between

25:32

the winners in the South Carolina education

25:34

lottery.

25:35

According to the lottery post,

25:37

when the Smiths finally arrived in Columbia

25:39

to claim their prize on March 4th, 2019,

25:43

132 days after the drawing,

25:45

they were picked up by a security team and

25:47

escorted to an underground parking garage at the

25:49

lottery headquarters. Security cameras

25:51

were turned off

25:52

and the windows were covered.

25:54

This is the announcement nobody

25:57

ever thought would happen. Or at least I'll tell you

25:59

what, Darcy.

25:59

you and I lost faith that it would happen, but

26:02

somebody has finally come forward to

26:05

claim that more than a billion

26:07

dollar jackpot in the Mega Millions jackpot.

26:10

Through her attorney, Jason Kerland, Beth

26:13

Smith released a statement to explain

26:15

what took so long. Quote, words

26:18

can't describe the feeling of such incredible

26:20

luck. I do realize that such

26:23

good fortune carries a tremendous social

26:25

responsibility, and it gives me a unique

26:27

opportunity to assist, support,

26:30

and contribute to charities and causes that

26:32

are close to my heart. I hired

26:34

a team with experience handling large jackpot

26:36

winners. I want to make sure I make all

26:39

of the right decisions, which is why

26:40

I have taken this amount of time to

26:42

collect my prize.

26:45

True to the word, the Smiths donated millions

26:47

to the Ronald McDonald House, the Red

26:49

Cross Alabama Region's Tornado Relief

26:52

Fund, the city of Simpsonville's Art

26:54

Center, the South Carolina Hurricane

26:56

Florence Relief Fund, and a charity

26:58

for women undergoing breast cancer.

27:01

They spent millions more on themselves,

27:03

of course, but sensibly, mostly

27:05

on real estate. The couple purchased

27:08

a hotel for investment purposes, but

27:10

they did splurge on a few other things. The

27:12

Smiths asked Jason Kerland to acquire tickets

27:15

to the Masters Golf Tournament and the

27:17

Kentucky Derby. They were gifts for

27:19

family members, they said. When Steve

27:21

Smith asked for an autographed photo of sports

27:23

legend Daniel Rudiger, also known

27:25

as Rudy, the little guy from Notre

27:28

Dame, the Smith family

27:30

invested the rest of their fortune, which

27:32

amounted to hundreds of millions of dollars.

27:35

They told Jason Kerland that they wanted to invest

27:37

it very conservatively. My

27:39

husband and I believe this was, this

27:41

blessing was going to be provided to my

27:44

family and we would have it generationally. So

27:46

we didn't need to take any risk in doing that. No

27:50

problem. Lottery lawyer Jason

27:52

Kerland agreed to manage the Smiths financial

27:54

accounts for a mere $50,000 a month

27:58

and to ensure the family's anonymity.

27:59

All of their money was deposited

28:02

into accounts opened under Jason Kerlin's

28:04

name. According to

28:07

the lottery post, this was the agreed

28:09

upon plan. The Smith's primary

28:11

bank account would be opened at Bank Lumi in

28:13

New York in Jason Kerlin's name. That

28:16

account would distribute $100 million each

28:18

to two other accounts in Jason Kerlin's

28:20

name and $50 million each to

28:22

two other accounts in Jason Kerlin's name.

28:26

Of course, all of it would be invested and supervised

28:28

in-house by those banks.

28:31

Meanwhile, the Smith's and their extended

28:34

family would live off of the interest generated

28:36

by a $30 million investment in two

28:38

companies named Cheddar Capital and

28:41

JBMML. Jason

28:43

Kerlin pitched the idea and guaranteed

28:45

a 9% return. Every

28:48

month, the returns would be distributed

28:50

to 10 members of the Smith family. Kerlin

28:53

decimated that it would be about $12,500 each, more than enough

28:55

to cover the average person's monthly budget. Unfortunately,

29:02

that amount did not remain consistent. Within

29:05

months, the checks delivered to the Smiths,

29:08

usually late, would sometimes be much

29:10

lower than expected. They were not

29:12

the amount of monies that we were, you know, guaranteed

29:15

in these documents. It was very concerning. Terribly concerning,

29:17

Beth said.

29:22

The Smiths became even more concerned when the FBI

29:24

came calling. They were told

29:26

that some of their lottery winnings had been invested

29:28

in a Ponzi scheme that they had been investigating.

29:32

The Smiths immediately confronted their attorney, Jason Kerlin. He

29:35

told them it was nothing to worry about. Bad investments

29:38

happen sometimes. Everything

29:40

was under control. Nothing

29:42

could be further from the truth.

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30:19

Hi, my name is Jason Kurland. I'm an attorney

30:21

who represents lottery jackpot winners all over the

30:23

country. I've represented clients ranging

30:25

from $1 million scratch-off ticket winners to $336

30:27

million powerball

30:29

winners.

30:32

The lottery lawyer gimmick just kind of fell

30:34

into Jason Kurland's lap. He was

30:36

in his late 30s in 2011, working

30:39

as a commercial real estate lawyer on Long Island

30:42

when a friend of his introduced him to a trio

30:44

of hedge fund managers from Connecticut who,

30:46

fresh off the heels of Occupy Wall Street,

30:49

just won a $254 million powerball jackpot and

30:53

were looking for legal advice. You

30:55

know, they didn't know what to do. They were scared.

30:58

I don't know if Jason does lottery

31:00

stuff, but I trust him immensely

31:02

why don't you go to him? So we represented

31:05

that group of winners.

31:07

Jason Kurland agreed to represent the group

31:10

and after a bizarre press conference in which

31:12

he did all the talking,

31:14

rumors swirled that the hedge fund managers

31:16

themselves were a cover for the true winner,

31:18

a claim that everyone involved denied. How

31:21

many tickets were actually bought just for one? One

31:23

dollar.

31:24

In a mysterious press conference yesterday,

31:26

their spokesperson said they'd formed a trust

31:28

and would give most of the winnings away. But

31:31

now in an unusual twist first reported

31:33

by the Daily Mail overnight, Tom Gladstone,

31:36

a longtime family friend of one of the trio,

31:38

says this was all an elaborate ruse.

31:41

The resulting publicity from the non-scandal

31:44

helped Jason Kurland reinvent his professional

31:47

identity. A month later, he

31:49

was contacted by Louise White,

31:51

an 81-year-old woman from Rhode Island who

31:53

had just won a $336 million Powerball jackpot. Let

31:58

me say that.

31:59

Louise has been magnificent

32:02

to work with. She

32:04

is as vibrant, as sharp, as

32:07

vivacious as any octogenarian

32:09

you're ever going to meet. You're

32:12

not going to find an 81-year-old who has

32:15

been able to accept this with the poise and

32:17

the wherewithal the way

32:19

she has. From day one, she

32:22

did the right thing. You know, it's very difficult for

32:25

a lottery winner of this size to

32:27

suppress the urge to run in the

32:29

next day and claim their prize and get the money.

32:31

And she did the right thing.

32:34

And just like that, Jason Kurland

32:36

became America's most recognizable

32:38

lottery lawyer. He started using the handle

32:41

at lotterylawyer on social media

32:43

where he offered free advice to overwhelmed winners.

32:46

And he had his own website, the lotterylawyer.com,

32:49

where

32:49

he detailed his step-by-step plan to save

32:51

lottery-winning families wealth and health.

32:54

Jason was often invited to detail his

32:56

plan on national news programs when

32:59

a large jackpot was imminent.

33:01

Here's what you should do if you ever win.

33:04

Step one,

33:05

double-check the numbers on your ticket.

33:07

Make sure it's a winner. And then sign the back

33:09

of your ticket.

33:10

It sounds ridiculous, but I've received

33:13

a number of calls from people who either

33:15

got one number wrong or were

33:17

looking at the wrong day. I mean, how bad luck

33:19

is that? Just make sure you have the winning

33:21

ticket.

33:23

Step two, photocopy the front

33:25

and back of the ticket and store the original

33:27

in a safe deposit box.

33:29

You should only work with a copy from now on.

33:32

Do not touch the original until you are

33:34

ready to make the claim.

33:36

Now the most crucial step, step

33:38

three,

33:39

shut your mouth. Stay quiet.

33:42

Be quiet. Record. Stay

33:44

quiet. Keep quiet. All right? Tell

33:47

you who are the media's family, best friends, the people you really need, everybody else,

33:49

mum's the word. You're not one of the wealthiest people

33:51

in the world, so start acting like it. You

33:54

will need this time to let this new reality

33:56

sink in, Jason Kerland wrote on his

33:58

website.

33:59

Obviously you should.

33:59

should share this amazing news with those immediate

34:02

family members and close friends that you need

34:04

to support you through this exciting yet stressful

34:06

process. Nobody else.

34:08

The time period between the day you win and

34:11

the day you claim the ticket and introduce yourself

34:13

to the world is the last chance you will

34:15

have to live a normal life, he warns. And

34:18

you don't need neighbors, friends,

34:20

family knocking on your door asking for handouts,

34:22

giving their advice on what they think you should do. Next,

34:26

assemble a team of professionals. Having

34:29

an experienced team of professionals with you during

34:31

this overwhelming event will not only

34:33

give you the peace of mind you require, but

34:36

it will let you focus on the important things,

34:38

says the lottery

34:38

lawyer.

34:40

And make plans to leave town, he adds,

34:42

at least for a few days. The world will

34:44

want to meet its latest multimillionaire, whether

34:47

it is for mere curiosity, news

34:49

stories, charity, or other solicitations.

34:52

They will find out where you live, where you work,

34:54

and who your friends are. The good news

34:57

is that this curiosity will go away quickly.

34:59

Make sure your attorney or spokesperson

35:02

can handle all inquiries while you are gone.

35:04

Go right from the press conference to the airport,

35:07

I'll get to it before I just go. And

35:10

when you

35:10

come back, things usually die

35:11

down, at least you have here maybe a couple

35:14

weeks to get your head straight. Here's

35:16

some more free tips from Jason Courland,

35:19

the lottery lawyer. Take the

35:21

lump sum.

35:22

In almost every case, the lump sum

35:24

is better because you can invest it now

35:27

and earn more.

35:28

While these static payouts from the lottery commission

35:30

will lose value over time, courtesy of

35:32

inflation,

35:34

even extremely conservative investments

35:36

will earn more in the long run.

35:38

It's the time value of money. You

35:40

know, once in a while, someone will come to me, the

35:43

person who wanted to buy the island, for instance, I said, you know what, there's

35:45

something called an annuity. Maybe that's for you. But

35:47

that's only in the rare circumstance where I think that

35:49

they're not gonna be able to control the term. Also,

35:52

Jason Courland recommends avoiding

35:54

office polls where coworkers lump

35:56

their money together to buy multiple lottery tickets.

35:59

History has shown that when one of these polls wins, things

36:02

can get ugly and litigious.

36:04

Unless everything is documented clearly as

36:07

to who owns the rights to what and

36:09

knowing your coworkers, you have a better

36:11

chance at winning the lottery than them being that

36:13

organized.

36:14

Finally, if you win the lottery and the option is

36:16

available, remain anonymous.

36:19

Currently there are 21 states where lottery

36:21

winners do not have to reveal their identity.

36:24

Even if that brief moment of attention is alluring,

36:27

avoid it.

36:28

History lawyer Jason Kurland says that nothing

36:30

good will come of it, and he would know.

36:33

Having been a lawyer for over 20 years, 46-year-old

36:36

Jason Kurland had undoubtedly seen it

36:38

all.

36:39

By the time South Carolina jackpot winner Beth

36:41

Smith contacted him in 2018, Kurland had

36:44

settled comfortably into his niche, representing

36:47

dozens of lottery winners who had collected a

36:49

combined nearly billion dollars.

36:51

I bet he has some funny stories. A

36:55

few weeks ago, a client won in 245 million in Staten Island, and he

36:57

didn't even know he

37:03

bought the ticket, put it on his kitchen table, went on vacation

37:05

for a week. Well New York's newest millionaire

37:07

has finally been named. He's a construction

37:09

worker from Staten Island, and he just stepped forward

37:12

claiming his 245 million

37:14

dollar jackpot. Let that sink

37:16

in. Any advice that you have

37:18

for lottery players watching you right

37:20

now? Yeah, keep playing. If it could

37:22

happen to me, it could happen to anyone. Just keep playing

37:24

the lotto. And if you win,

37:26

call Jason Kurland.

37:33

On August 11, 2018, Nandilal Mangal won the 245 million dollar

37:35

Powerball jackpot. On

37:40

the advice of his new lawyer, Mr.

37:42

Mangal opted for the one-time post-tax

37:45

lump sum payment of $99,321,975.

37:51

He gave the traditional oversized check

37:54

to Jason Kurland as a souvenir to keep

37:56

in his office.

37:58

According to Bloomberg, Within a week

38:00

of his win, Jason Kerlin pitched

38:03

non-law Mengele on the can't miss

38:05

prospect of investing in Cheddar Capital

38:07

and JP-MML, the same

38:09

businesses Kerlin would later introduce to

38:11

the Smiths. Nandlaw invested $5

38:14

million. Cheddar

38:17

Capital and JP-MML were

38:19

what you call merchant cash advance companies,

38:22

predatory instruments, targeted at

38:24

small business owners in desperate need of liquidity,

38:27

almost like a payday loan except it's not

38:30

a loan. Merchant cash advance companies

38:32

trade a lump sum of cash for a portion

38:34

of a business's future sales to

38:36

typically collect their cut daily. It's

38:39

not illegal. The industry was born

38:41

during the 2008 financial crisis

38:43

and has thrived ever since Jason Kerlin

38:45

would enlighten his lottery clients without

38:48

disclosing that he was a part owner in both

38:50

of the companies he recommended. Not

38:52

only would he share in the returns of his clients' investments

38:54

without their knowledge, but Kerlin also

38:57

received a 1% finder's fee on

38:59

all the funds he brought in. Jason

39:02

Kerlin was roped into the industry by a neighbor,

39:04

Frank Smukler, a 45-year-old former stockbroker

39:08

and his associate, 38-year-old Frankie

39:10

Russo, the grandson of the Colombo

39:12

crime family boss, Andy Mush Russo.

39:16

Smukler and Russo managed Cheddar Capital and

39:18

JP-MML's investments and

39:20

were always on the lookout for deals too good

39:22

to be true, and they found one with

39:25

a man named Gregory Altieri, a

39:27

jeweler who explained to Smukler and Russo

39:29

that he had

39:29

the hookup on Clarence Price's jewelry

39:32

that he could flip for up to 70% profit

39:35

like clockwork. It was a foolproof

39:37

money-making opportunity, he told them. Cheddar

39:40

Capital agreed, investing tens of

39:42

millions of dollars of its lottery winner's prize

39:45

money. Frank Smukler

39:47

and Frankie Russo also loaned $250,000 to Gregory

39:49

Altieri, who promised to

39:53

repay them $400k, but

39:55

by fall 2019, that

39:57

repayment had not been received.

39:59

When collection efforts failed, Frank

40:02

Smukler and Frankie Russo got

40:04

violent.

40:05

I have a few tactical shotguns

40:07

with lasers, Russo warned out Tieri

40:10

over the phone. Russo likened himself

40:12

to the mob boss in that Adam Sandler

40:14

movie Uncut Gems, in which a jeweler

40:16

who owes money winds up with a bullet in his head.

40:19

They're gonna pop your head off in front of your fucking

40:21

kids, Russo threatened. You

40:23

watch my man, Frank Smukler took

40:26

over for his partner like it was a pro wrestling

40:28

promo. You fucked me. Now

40:30

watch what I'm going to do to you. I'm coming,

40:32

brother. Full fucking steam ahead.

40:35

You're gonna get fucking tortured. The

40:37

village is burned. It's game over. You've

40:40

ruined my life. We're gonna

40:42

find your wife today. That's happening,

40:44

Smukler warned before Russo jumped

40:46

back in with a promise to Gregory Altieri

40:49

that they were, quote, going to make you watch

40:51

as they rip your son's teeth out of his mouth. Watch.

40:55

They're going to do worse things to your wife. And

40:57

then Smukler said he hoped Altieri's lawyer would

41:00

die in a car accident. The

41:02

FBI was listening and had been for months.

41:05

Altieri was cutting a deal with the government for

41:07

the same reason he could not pay back the street

41:10

loan because he had been running a multi-year,

41:13

multi-million dollar Ponzi scheme that finally

41:15

broke. Initially, Gregory

41:18

Altieri was purchasing the jewelry and

41:20

reselling it as he had promised, but

41:22

then he found it easier just to raise funds

41:24

from new investors and pay off the old ones. No

41:27

need to sell a bunch of garbage when you can just move

41:29

money around. Over two years,

41:31

Altieri raised more than $69 million

41:34

from at least 80 different investors, the

41:36

majority of them current and retired police

41:39

officers and firefighters, including

41:41

the promised returns. Gregory Altieri's

41:44

Ponzi scheme defrauded his clients out of $200 million.

41:48

He was eventually charged and pleaded guilty.

41:51

As a result of his actions, stated FBI

41:53

Assistant Director in charge, William Sweeney, the

41:56

FBI has provided him with stainless

41:58

steel jewelry for his wrist.

41:59

today and a guarantee of working

42:02

to hold him and others who commit similar

42:04

frauds accountable for their behavior. Who

42:07

writes this shit? Anyway,

42:09

the money that Cheddar Capital and JBMML

42:12

had invested into Gregory Altieri's Ponzi

42:14

scheme was gone, including $80

42:17

million in lottery winnings. The

42:20

FBI was still listening in June 2019

42:23

after informing those lottery winners that some of

42:25

their money was involved in a fraud. My

42:27

Staten Island clients are very concerned,

42:29

Jason Kerlin told his buddies. You

42:32

know, the visits combined with the lack

42:34

of payments. But do you think

42:36

that's going to explode into some big thing?

42:39

Frank Smukler asked. No, Kerlin

42:41

replied. At the end of the day, we've got

42:43

bad business moves, but it was nothing criminal.

42:47

About a week later, according to Bloomberg, Frank

42:49

Smukler, feeling uneasy about the whole

42:51

thing, called Frankie Russo. He

42:54

coerced these people into investing with us, Smukler

42:57

reminded him. Russo tried to calm

42:59

him down. Maybe we conducted

43:01

him orally, fine. All I

43:04

know is that a lawyer was giving me five,

43:06

ten, twenty million dollars. It

43:08

was Jason Kerlin, Russo told Smukler,

43:11

who got greedy, not them. They

43:13

have nothing to worry about. The lottery

43:15

lawyer would take the fall. A

43:19

few months later, it appeared as if no one

43:21

would take the fall. The Cheddar Capital trio

43:24

was handed a gift in the form of a

43:26

global pandemic in a woefully

43:28

unprepared country.

43:29

There was a massive opportunity to make

43:32

up their losses. It was almost like

43:34

winning the lottery.

43:39

One of the central business storylines

43:42

of the coronavirus crisis has been the shortage

43:45

of so-called N95 respirator

43:47

face masks. The filtration systems

43:49

keep out at least 95 percent of particles.

43:52

Now America's largest supplier of

43:54

those masks has gone into overdrive

43:57

to meet demand.

43:59

COVID-19 surged in March 2020,

44:03

production and supply chain disruptions threatened

44:05

to make it worse. There was a nationwide

44:08

shortage of personal protective equipment, such

44:10

as face masks for healthcare workers. Many

44:13

states, including California, had been sold

44:15

out for weeks. In a desperate

44:18

attempt to replenish its supply, the

44:20

state of California signed a nearly $800 million

44:23

non-competitive contract for 400

44:25

million 3-ply surgical masks and 200

44:28

million face shields with Bear

44:29

Mountain Development, a company

44:32

owned by former Alabama Attorney General

44:34

Troy King. A man

44:36

named Christopher Chirchio, who was just

44:38

acquitted by a jury on a plumbing-related

44:41

bid-rigging case, became a subcontractor

44:43

for Bear Mountain and had the opportunity

44:46

to buy and sell the masks and shields. But

44:48

in order to fully capitalize on the pandemic,

44:51

Chirchio needed to raise funds to purchase

44:53

inventory.

44:54

According to Bloomberg, a business associate

44:57

of Chirchios in Miami introduced

44:59

him to a trio of desperate men in Long

45:01

Island who had just lost their ass in a Ponzi

45:03

scheme.

45:04

They might want in.

45:06

Frank Smookler, Frankie Russo, and Jason

45:08

Kerland jumped at the chance. The

45:11

lottery lawyer convinced Beth Smith,

45:13

the big winner from South Carolina, to invest $19.5

45:15

million. Beth had always wanted to use the money for

45:18

good

45:20

deeds, saving lives by supplying

45:23

masks seems like a philanthropic move,

45:25

and she insisted that Kerland donate to charity

45:28

the $300,000 a month in profit that he guaranteed. Christopher

45:33

Chirchio motivated Jason Kerland to find even

45:35

more money. This is your chance to make

45:38

all of your losses back. Go deep

45:40

with me here, Chirchio urged. So,

45:43

Jason Kerland returned to Beth Smith's bank account,

45:46

which was in his name after all, and

45:48

took another $19.5 million without

45:50

asking.

45:51

The worse it is, the better, Kerland

45:53

told Smookler, in reference to the pandemic.

45:56

However,

45:57

the four men did not invent.

45:59

Best all of that money.

46:02

Unbeknownst to each other, Smukler,

46:04

Russo, Courland, and Chircio were

46:07

all skimming off the top for their personal use.

46:09

They bought yachts and sports cars, flew

46:12

private, and paid country club dues.

46:14

Like, looking at my bank statement

46:16

today, not gonna lie, Courland texted Smukler.

46:19

Those were better times, but by May 2020,

46:21

those days were over.

46:26

Unfortunately for everyone involved in

46:28

the $800 million dollar mask deal with California,

46:31

the state canceled the agreement over Bear

46:33

Mountain's inability to fulfill its part of

46:35

the deal. According to the Los Angeles

46:37

Times, by then, according to the contract, 60

46:41

million face shields and 120 million

46:43

surgical masks should have been delivered. In

46:45

reality, California had received less

46:48

than half a million shields and less than 10

46:50

million masks. It was unacceptable.

46:54

According to Bloomberg, Christopher Chircio had

46:56

only received about $7 million from the state

46:58

of California and kept most of it for

47:00

himself. Just

47:02

like the second 19.5 million that Jason Courland

47:05

literally stole from the Smith's bank account, Chircio

47:08

reportedly kept 15.5 million of

47:10

that for himself. When the deal

47:12

collapsed, Jason Courland started panicking.

47:15

Every fucking dollar we make should go back to paying

47:17

our debt before anybody gets a dollar,

47:19

he told Russo in a recorded phone call.

47:21

I had no idea that we took. You

47:24

paid yourselves, you bought cars, you used money

47:26

for stuff. I'm not a stockbroker. I'm

47:29

not. This is not what I'm supposed to

47:31

be doing.

47:32

Jason Courland knew the walls were closing

47:35

in.

47:36

He scrambled to devise an idea that would

47:38

make the FBI call the dogs off. Maybe

47:40

if they just returned the money to the lottery winners'

47:42

accounts or somehow made the transfers

47:45

look like legitimate business transactions,

47:47

but

47:48

no luck.

47:49

So bring the FBI. Who cares?

47:52

Christopher Chircho said in a phone call, seemingly

47:54

unbothered. It doesn't matter. I

47:57

laugh at them.

47:58

Okay? I laugh. at them. A

48:02

New York attorney known as the lottery lawyer

48:04

is now charged with extorting lottery

48:06

winners in a $107 million scheme. Today,

48:10

New York federal prosecutors indicted Jason

48:12

Kurland, seen here in one of our reports from 2018,

48:16

and three alleged accomplices. Prosecutors

48:19

say one of those accomplices is a member of the Genovese

48:21

crime family. The suspects are accused

48:23

of threatening to torture and kill the

48:26

families of lottery winners. The

48:28

indictment says one of the victims won the $1.5 billion

48:30

mega

48:31

millions jackpot. Jason

48:34

Kurland, Frank Smookler, Frankie Russo,

48:37

and Christopher Chircho were indicted

48:39

on August 13, 2020.

48:42

The indictment alleges that Kurland invested $107 million

48:44

for three lottery winners, more than $80

48:48

million of which was lost or stolen. All

48:51

four men were charged with 21 counts, including

48:53

wire fraud and money laundering. Kurland

48:56

was also charged with honest services

48:58

fraud. The defendants callously

49:01

thought they could lie in their pockets with lottery winnings

49:03

without consequence, but today, their

49:06

luck ran out, said the acting United

49:08

States Attorney

49:09

for the Eastern District of New York. Not

49:12

to be outdone, FBI Assistant Director

49:14

in Charge William Sweeney chimed in with this quote,

49:17

rather than try their luck at the lottery, these

49:19

men resorted to defrauding the victims to get

49:21

rich, but their gamble didn't

49:23

pay off.

49:26

Everyone pleaded guilty except Jason

49:28

Kurland.

49:29

His attorney argued that the lottery lawyer was

49:31

the actual victim.

49:33

Quote, Kurland was not in the conspiracy

49:35

with these guys.

49:37

They were in a conspiracy against him.

49:40

According to his defense, Jason Kurland

49:42

had been taken advantage of by some mobsters.

49:45

He thought he was making responsible investments into

49:47

legitimate businesses and the best interests

49:49

of everyone involved. His greatest

49:51

weakness was that he trusted

49:54

too much.

49:55

Frank Smookler and Frankie Russo testified

49:58

against Jason Kurland at his trial. in

50:00

July 2022. So did

50:02

Beth Smith, using the fake name

50:04

Beth Smith. She told the court about

50:06

the panic she felt after her lawyer, Jason

50:09

Curlin, was arrested. They feared that

50:11

he would clear them out and flee once

50:13

he realized he was in trouble. She talked

50:15

about how difficult it was to recover the accounts

50:18

since they were entirely in his name. In

50:20

total, Jason Curlin defrauded the Smiths

50:23

out of $83 million. Collectively,

50:26

the other lottery winners, including Nanlal

50:29

Mangal, lost about $25 million.

50:32

We had a large lump sum of money, Mangal

50:34

testified. We didn't know what's coming

50:36

next. He made us feel very comfortable, very

50:39

sure he could do this.

50:41

A surprise witness at Jason Curlin's trial

50:44

was his internet famous brother-in-law, Dr.

50:46

Scott Blyer, aka Dr.

50:49

B. Fixon. He's a cosmetic surgeon

50:51

in Long Island, best known for the $5,000

50:54

Brazilian butt lift operations that he advertised

50:56

and shared in graphic detail. Dr.

51:00

Blyer allegedly handed Curlin hundreds of

51:02

thousands of dollars in cash to quote invest

51:05

in a separate tax evasion scheme. In

51:08

exchange for his testimony, Dr. B.

51:10

Fixon was never charged. On

51:12

July 26, 2022, a jury

51:15

in Brooklyn unanimously convicted Jason

51:17

Curlin of five counts of wire fraud,

51:20

honest services wire fraud, and money laundering.

51:23

He was sentenced on June 15, 2023 to 13 years in prison and

51:25

ordered to forfeit $64 million, $600,000, and

51:32

pay a yet to be determined amount of restitution.

51:36

Jason Curlin told the judge he was ashamed and

51:38

embarrassed and acknowledged that what he did

51:40

was stupid and misguided. Curlin

51:43

broke down in tears. I failed

51:45

so many, Your Honor, my clients,

51:48

my family. Through his lawyer,

51:50

Jason Curlin has vowed to appeal.

51:54

Christopher Chircho was sentenced to five

51:56

years in prison and ordered to pay $26,550,000.

51:59

$50,000 in forfeiture and $30,550,000 in restitution. Frank Smukler and

52:02

Frankie Russo are still awaiting

52:09

sentencing.

52:17

Swindled is written, researched, produced,

52:20

and hosted by me, the concerned citizen,

52:22

with original music by Trevor Howard, aka

52:25

Deformer, aka Cheddar

52:27

Capital. For more information about

52:29

Swindled, you can visit SwindledPodcast.com

52:32

and follow us on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and

52:34

TikTok at Swindled Podcast. Or

52:37

you can send us a postcard at P.O. Box 6044, Austin,

52:40

Texas 78762. But

52:43

please no packages. We do not trust

52:45

you. Swindled is a completely independent

52:47

production,

52:47

which means no network, no

52:49

investors, no bosses, no shadowy

52:52

moneymen, no cartoonishly oversized

52:54

checks. And we plan to keep it that way,

52:57

but we need your support. Become a

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For as little as $5 a month, you will receive early

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Or if you want to support the show and need something

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in return for your support, you can always

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simply donate using the form on the

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homepage. That's it.

53:45

Thanks for listening. My

53:47

name is Sarah Jane from Courtney, British

53:50

Columbia, Canada. My name is Carl,

53:53

and I'm from the Republic of Ireland.

53:55

My name is Tiana, and I'm from

53:58

Rochester, and I'm a mainstream citizen. and

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a valued listener. And

54:02

a valued listener.

54:06

And to be honest, I consider myself

54:08

pretty lucky if the host somehow

54:10

swindled us in the future. Peace.

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