0:01

Support

0:01

for this episode comes from eBay. Whether

0:04

it's a holy grail pair of sneakers, head-turning

0:07

handbags, or one genuine wardrobe

0:09

staple, if you're always on the hunt for that

0:11

one wardrobe staple you just gotta have, eBay

0:14

gets it. Nothing's more important than the real

0:16

deal. When you shop on eBay,

0:18

all you have to do is look out for that shiny blue checkmark

0:20

that says Authenticity Guarantee, and

0:23

you'll know that every inch, stitch, hole, and

0:25

logo will be verified authentic through a detailed

0:27

inspection. With eBay Authenticity

0:30

Guarantee, real is

0:31

always in reach. Ensure your

0:34

next purchase is the real deal. Visit eBay.com

0:36

for terms.

0:48

Welcome to In Her Shoes. I'm Lindsay

0:50

Peeples, Editor-in-Chief of The Cut. I'm

0:57

very excited to welcome today's guest, Mar

1:00

Hoffman, who started her label back in 2002

1:02

in her Upper East Side apartment.

1:05

Over a decade in, she had an epiphany

1:07

about the fashion industry.

1:09

Without sustainable practices, it was a toxic

1:11

business that was bad for the earth. And

1:14

with the perspective of becoming a new mom, she was

1:16

also thinking about her legacy differently. It

1:19

was then that Hoffman began transforming her

1:21

business practices with a commitment to sustainability

1:24

as a core principle. This fall,

1:26

Hoffman was awarded the Environmental Sustainability

1:29

Award from the Council of Fashion Designers of America.

1:32

And on today's episode

1:33

of In Her Shoes, we'll explore how

1:35

she thinks about sustainable growth and

1:37

talk about the impact she wants to make on the wider

1:39

fashion industry. Hi,

1:42

Mara. Thank you for joining us on this

1:45

show. And I have to start by saying congratulations

1:48

on your CFDA 2023

1:51

Environmental Sustainability Award. Thank

1:53

you. I'm so happy to be here. I

1:56

love what you do. I love you. I'm excited

1:58

to talk to you.

1:59

And yeah, thanks about the award.

2:02

It's pretty exciting. I mean, obviously

2:05

your brand has had so many

2:07

pivotal moments over the years. But

2:10

when you launched the brand, Fresh

2:12

Out of Parsons, this is long before

2:16

how we shop today, which

2:18

could be on TikTok, Instagram, e-commerce,

2:21

all of those things. Your

2:23

collection and obviously where your head was at was

2:25

obviously in such a different place in building a

2:27

brand. Tell us about those

2:29

early years and the

2:31

moments where you felt like the business and really

2:33

felt solidified for you. For sure.

2:36

So the brand is 23 years old now, which

2:38

really is wild to me.

2:40

That's

2:43

incredible. Yeah, it is. And

2:46

as of recently, I've been really kind of adjusting

2:49

my idea and relationship

2:51

to it and

2:53

trying to kind of remove this

2:56

idea that I am my brand. And more it's

2:58

like, oh, I created this

3:00

thing, like a kid kind of. And my kid is 23

3:02

years old. And so

3:05

it's been an interesting moment of reflection

3:08

and also in separating this I

3:10

am it versus I created

3:13

it or gave birth to it. So I've been in this little place,

3:16

but thinking a lot about those beginning

3:18

years and what they were

3:20

and sort of where they correlate in a way

3:23

to where I am now. But the very beginning

3:26

was starting this summer. I graduated

3:28

from Parsons, yes. And I was hand

3:30

making everything in my little

3:33

studio apartment above Curry and

3:35

Ahari, which is still there on 28th and Lex. And

3:38

at the time, I was doing a lot of deconstruction,

3:42

kind of like working with existing

3:44

garments and cutting and redesigning

3:47

and hand sewing

3:49

beads. Dyeing each piece was one

3:52

of a kind. It really straddled that arts,

3:55

fashion space. And again, this is the end

3:57

of the 90s. So there was a lot more room for

3:59

that. I think that there's a renaissance of it

4:01

now, definitely in fashion, but the

4:05

90s and early 2000s,

4:06

we were, there was a lot more of that

4:08

kind of crossover of art and fashion

4:10

in

4:11

New York particularly. So I was in

4:13

that space. I was selling one

4:15

offs. I was selling

4:17

my friends at the time were stylists and they

4:20

were doing these new

4:22

artists, like new artists, Britney Spears,

4:24

new artists, Jennifer

4:27

Lopez, new artists, you know, Cristin

4:29

Aguilera. So it was this real burst

4:31

of kind of a new time

4:33

of what celebrity was going to be. And

4:37

my friends were doing their music videos. So

4:39

I would make these pieces for them. And

4:43

that was the very beginning. And

4:46

then I had a run in. I

4:48

was bringing a bag of clothes to put

4:50

on consignment, the store, a

4:53

friend's store in Nolita. I

4:55

don't think it was called Nolita at the time. I don't even know what we called

4:57

it. But

4:59

I met Patricia Fields in

5:02

that store who at the

5:04

time had these

5:05

two incredible stores in New York

5:07

that

5:07

were kind of like the spot

5:11

for club kids and

5:14

sort of counterculture, cool

5:16

fashion club moment. And

5:19

she saw me in the store and loved

5:22

what I had on and said, Hey, what's in your bag?

5:24

I'm styling for this

5:27

new show and it's called Sex

5:29

and the City. And I was like, casual,

5:32

casual, who knew? And

5:37

so she bought the bag of

5:39

clothes that I had on me. And then the next

5:41

day her buyers for those stores called and

5:45

set up appointments. So that's sort of how I started

5:47

my wholesale, wholesale business. It

5:50

was me alone in my apartment

5:52

hand sewing and making clothes

5:55

to bring to the store. And then it

5:58

gave me the confidence. And I. grew

6:00

it from there. So

6:02

that's the very beginning part. And then it's

6:04

had these major marking

6:07

points along the way, such

6:09

as getting out of hand-dying everything,

6:12

discovering I could design prints, and

6:15

how that could take me out of the hands-on

6:17

production part, launching

6:19

swimwear, the business

6:21

going through very different aesthetic shifts,

6:24

different moments of getting

6:27

a lot of attention for a particular

6:29

thing I had designed. We've gone through different

6:31

phases of that. And then probably

6:34

the most important one was when we

6:36

really hit that shift point towards

6:39

the work we're doing now within sustainability.

6:41

It feels like there's been so many

6:44

eras for the brand. And obviously,

6:46

some years into the brand being

6:48

very established, you also

6:51

made sure that people understood the

6:53

importance of sustainability and

6:55

the environmental impact of all of the

6:57

things that we're doing, obviously, in fashion. Walk

7:00

us through how that came about to

7:03

be so important to you personally, and how it

7:05

really manifested as the

7:07

primary source of the brand as well. There

7:09

had been some years leading up to

7:12

when this shift took place, and the

7:15

years of starting

7:17

to understand and recognize the impact,

7:20

and not have any idea, though,

7:23

what I could actually do. Because so much

7:26

has happened in these past nine years

7:29

around information sharing, resources,

7:32

the ability to

7:35

change something now or to start a brand now

7:38

within that ethos is so different

7:40

than what was happening even short nine

7:43

years ago. So in 2015, I think

7:45

I really just hit

7:47

that

7:48

huge

7:49

pain point of mega

7:52

discomfort. And that

7:55

translated into the decision

7:57

that I would be willing to shut down. I

8:00

couldn't transform it. And

8:02

again, I didn't know the steps

8:04

of transformation. I didn't understand even

8:06

like, what do you do here when

8:09

you have this thing? And we

8:11

were not pioneers in this. There

8:13

were brands and people who've done this work before

8:16

us. There was, you know, we've got Eileen

8:18

and Stella

8:20

and Patagonia and the people have been doing the

8:22

work, right? But for

8:25

us, it was like, what? I used to

8:27

use an analogy of like a cruise ship that's

8:30

going in one direction and then like all of a

8:32

sudden you turn that thing. And

8:34

so I brought it to my, at the time,

8:37

production manager

8:39

or

8:40

director of production

8:41

and said, okay, we got to close. Also

8:43

my kid was three. And I think

8:45

that that added this other level

8:48

of examining your shit

8:50

kind of thing. And like, what is a legacy

8:53

and what is purely

8:56

egoic kind

8:58

of

8:59

existence and what is considering

9:02

the impact of the other. And even

9:04

if you're not able to, sometimes it's like

9:06

in the immediacy of it or in the familiar,

9:09

the deep familiar, like having a kid

9:12

being like, oh, okay, if I can't

9:14

connect to the global, I can connect

9:16

to this direct impact of

9:19

his experience and what it's going to be. And

9:21

I was also connecting

9:22

to a broader global

9:26

responsibility and pain around

9:28

it. But I think it just was able

9:31

to centralize it into like what

9:33

he would experience and how

9:36

it felt so out of alignment to

9:38

continue in a direction that could have possibly

9:41

be of

9:41

harm. So,

9:44

yeah.

9:45

I mean, speaking of alignment though, when,

9:48

I mean, I think you were definitely

9:50

one of the first businesses to also bring in a

9:53

lot of the resale business as well. And

9:55

just the conversation that we constantly have around

9:58

consumption and. And it felt like

10:01

definitely a shift in the past 10

10:04

years where there was all this pressure

10:06

for whether you were a symbol in working in the

10:08

industry or an editor,

10:10

a stylist, influencer, all of those things to

10:13

constantly be wearing new outfits. And

10:15

so the resale business, I think, has also just provided

10:17

another lane in alignment with

10:19

a lot of what you're talking about, obviously, with

10:21

sustainability. And I'm curious

10:24

of how those components

10:26

related to each other on your end and how consumers

10:29

have embraced resale as part of your

10:31

business.

10:31

Yeah, for sure. I mean, resale is

10:34

relatively new

10:37

for us in the sense that we had done

10:39

a program, a take-back program prior

10:42

to what we've launched now on

10:44

our site, which was about

10:46

repairing damaged goods

10:49

and being able to resell those. But it didn't

10:51

really pick up. And this was, I

10:55

don't want to get it wrong, but maybe in 2018, like that was when we had

10:59

done it. And then it didn't

11:01

have the momentum

11:04

behind it. And so in 2020,

11:07

we launched our own

11:09

take-back program, a

11:11

peer-to-peer system on our

11:14

site. So people that

11:16

own Morrow Hoffman could list

11:19

it and sell it to their

11:22

community, our community. For

11:25

us, one of our

11:25

main goals within

11:28

this framework of the work that we're

11:30

doing is obviously around circularity

11:33

and this ownership that

11:35

doesn't just end once the clothing

11:37

leaves us or that is only

11:40

centered on the design of it or the

11:42

materials of it and the production

11:44

of it that we understand

11:47

as a brand that it goes far past

11:49

that, that whatever happens at

11:51

the end of life cycle for what we're

11:53

doing is as important as the

11:55

intentionality that goes into the creation

11:58

of it, because that's the situation. we're

12:00

in is nobody

12:03

thinking about the end of things. It's

12:06

just the beginning point. I think it reflects

12:08

in a big way, sort of culturally

12:10

how we live and that's we celebrate

12:15

birth, like we're really good at that. We're

12:17

really good at celebrating new beginnings.

12:19

We're really good at celebrating when someone's

12:22

having a baby, but we're really,

12:24

really uncomfortable with, you know, putting

12:27

the same level of attention

12:30

and reverence to when things are dying. And,

12:34

you know, it's just the way that I

12:36

kind of hold the whole thing of it. It's like somebody,

12:39

I was on a panel and it was said, I

12:41

didn't say this, but you do, how

12:44

you do one thing is how you do all things.

12:47

And it was really beautiful and kind of connected

12:49

to this same idea that

12:51

if we could put the same love and

12:56

time and care and reverence to what happens

12:58

at the end of something, as opposed

13:00

to just being like, yay, it's new.

13:04

We would do probably a big part of the healing

13:06

that we've been avoiding altogether.

13:09

So back long answer

13:12

to that, but the

13:14

circularity part is that it's like, how

13:17

do we be as present for the death as we

13:19

are for the birth? And a take back program

13:22

and a reselling program extends that,

13:28

it extends the life of

13:30

the things that we're doing and it keeps

13:33

it in circulation. And there's

13:35

also really amazing parts too, that it invites

13:37

a new customer and at a different price point

13:39

and someone who maybe couldn't

13:43

participate with the brand and

13:45

they couldn't, they love the brand

13:47

and they have wanted to participate, but

13:50

now they have an opportunity to. And I think there's

13:53

also such an incredible movement around

13:55

people not buying new clothes. So

13:58

how do you activate as a brand? brand to

14:02

be on board with us. I agree

14:04

with it. I really agree with that

14:06

movement. So to be someone

14:08

whose profit and business is

14:11

based on the opposite side of that, like we

14:13

need to sell more things and new

14:15

things in order to pay our

14:17

supply chain and be here, you have to

14:19

kind of counter it or, put

14:23

the other parts in place that are at least

14:26

kind of meeting you somewhere in the middle with us. Fox

14:30

Creative.

14:40

This is advertiser content from eBay.

14:44

Dear Olive Jordan Nines, when

14:47

I first received you back in

14:49

high school, you were the best thing that

14:51

I ever wore. It broke my

14:53

heart when I had to let you go. And

14:56

I made it my focus to reunite.

14:59

And I promise to never let you go again.

15:02

Love, vero. My

15:06

name is Veronica Bonilla and I am a

15:08

fashion, beauty and lifestyle content

15:10

creator. Okay, so in

15:12

high school, I had the Olive

15:14

Jordan Nines. They were different than your

15:17

basic, like black, white and red. It

15:19

was still chic enough with the black, but then that

15:21

pop of Olive, these were like my

15:24

favorite sneakers. And then like my mom lost her job.

15:26

So I ended up selling a majority

15:28

of my sneakers just to help around the house. And

15:31

it really hurt. Like I was heartbroken

15:33

that I had to let them go. I spent years

15:36

looking for them and finally found them

15:39

on eBay not too long ago. Authenticity

15:42

means

15:42

showing up for myself, showing

15:44

off my personality, just what I'm feeling

15:47

that day. And that's how I feel with these Jordan

15:49

Olive Nines because they were the first pair of sneakers

15:51

that kind of introduced me into

15:53

my own personal style. And they

15:56

will forever be my soulmate.

16:00

From Jordan 9 to Adidas Sombas,

16:03

eBay knows that authenticity matters. That's

16:05

why when you're shopping on eBay and see that shiny

16:07

blue checkmark that says authenticity guarantee,

16:10

you know that piece will be verified authentic. Make

16:13

sure your next favorite find is the real deal.

16:16

Visit ebay.com for terms.

16:33

I mean, I'm also so curious of

16:36

what you've been able to view

16:38

in the industry from your position because I

16:40

feel like on my end, especially

16:43

with trends, it can just

16:45

feel very conflicting,

16:48

very hard because obviously you know that people

16:50

need to, as you were saying, make money

16:52

or you know, it's very exciting to see young

16:55

designers come up and you know, you want to

16:57

see creatives be able to be in

16:59

their element, but also just this feeling

17:01

that there's so much pressure and fashion

17:04

for the new thing, for the next thing, for the

17:06

big trend. And obviously your

17:08

own aesthetic is these are clothes that

17:10

you could wear no matter what life season

17:13

that you were in and they're not trend based.

17:15

But I feel like especially throughout the pandemic,

17:18

a lot of shopping and just trend

17:20

based brands were

17:22

really accelerated and

17:25

also just accelerated the amount of things that

17:28

people were returning. I can remember

17:30

so many specific pieces of people saying

17:33

like, this is the thing and then they don't wear

17:35

that anymore. And it

17:37

was such a, you know, it was such a specific

17:40

moment in time where they wanted something and then it just

17:42

feels like I wore it to wear

17:44

it on Instagram to tell people that I have it and then

17:46

it just completely goes away. How

17:48

has it been to watch that cycle

17:50

happen from your point of view, but also

17:53

understanding the mechanics and the logistics

17:56

behind this as a designer and sticking

17:58

true to your own? truth and how

18:01

you really want to be as a brand

18:03

and as a founder. Yeah. I

18:05

mean, it's super painful to

18:08

witness it and also feel that

18:10

you are potentially playing a role in it

18:13

and perpetuating the pace at

18:15

which we're running at this point. And

18:17

it's also this need

18:21

for newness is this, I feel like

18:23

a real symptom of the

18:26

illness that we're all in. And

18:28

it's like, we can't fill the hole

18:31

fast enough. We're hungry. It's like

18:34

a starving culture, you

18:36

know, and society that's externally

18:38

looking to be fed at every point

18:41

because there's, they're not doing it

18:43

from the inside out. And it's

18:45

really hard to heal anything

18:48

from the outside in. And so that's

18:50

what it is. It's like, this will make me feel better. This

18:52

will make me feel better, but it doesn't.

18:55

It's the wrong medicine. My

18:57

heart breaks for it. It's like not

18:59

in a place of judging or being like, what

19:02

is wrong with people? Why are they buying all

19:04

this fast fashion? I'm like, I

19:06

feel the opposite. I'm like, oh, oh,

19:09

we are like the poor humans.

19:12

Like we got it wrong. We got the message

19:15

wrong. We lost remembrance,

19:18

right? Of connectedness of what actually

19:20

mattered. And so we became starving

19:22

and our life fill it, fill it. And

19:25

we're looking at a planet that is

19:27

reflecting back hungry

19:29

humans and it can't

19:31

keep up with us. It can't feed us quick enough.

19:35

And so it breaks my heart. I

19:37

think about that. And then how that translates, like

19:39

all that emotionality, the

19:42

spirit-based aspect of this, nature-based

19:45

aspect of this, then informs

19:48

design. And I think it's

19:51

about doing our best to communicate

19:55

longevity, communicate

19:57

a good transformation.

20:00

transformation and how we hold material,

20:02

you know anything beyond forget close

20:05

anything That is of

20:07

physical form like how we acquire it

20:09

how we put reverence into it how

20:11

we hold it how we take care of things You

20:14

know, like how do you take care of the things

20:16

in your life? like I imagine

20:19

that it's pretty related like

20:21

how you take care of like a shirt

20:23

or an item is Pretty Probably

20:29

Resembles how you take care of a relationship

20:31

or you take care of an emotion or an experience

20:34

in your life Do you throw it away? Do you get

20:36

tired of it? Do not work on it?

20:38

Do you not try and mend it and repair

20:40

it and know that it's sacred and special?

20:44

and so I think if I could That

20:46

would that's my goal is to sort of be

20:48

a translator of that of like Where do we

20:50

reconnect and how

20:53

as designers within my own team? Are

20:56

we able to do that in our design? Do we

20:58

speak to the materials try

21:00

and teach people how to take care like

21:03

relearn? Like thinking about

21:05

my parents generation and

21:07

how they had such a different relationship

21:10

to their clothes I remember my mom and

21:13

her clothing and how she took care of

21:15

it and how her clothes lasted You

21:18

know, she had the same things for

21:20

so many years. She still has these beautiful

21:22

pieces in her closet that are 30 or 40

21:25

years old and It

21:27

was just a different Set

21:31

of training and habits that she had from

21:33

her parents and it got lost

21:35

along the way through access

21:38

to so much I really

21:41

admire and love your Philosophy

21:43

around connection and obviously

21:45

there's a lot of ties With

21:48

you personally and in having

21:50

beliefs around nature and

21:53

just like a Spiritual intimacy

21:55

there and I'm just curious of where

21:58

when that became something that was in important

22:01

to you as a person and how

22:03

you really wanted to integrate that as part of the brand.

22:07

Yeah, thank you for asking that because I

22:09

think it's important

22:12

to talk about that part. It's huge

22:14

for me and it's only become louder.

22:17

So I think that a big

22:19

portion of my life, like I always,

22:23

you know, I've always loved nature or connected

22:25

to it and this work within, you know,

22:27

I use quotations when I say

22:29

sustainability because I think we're all fishing

22:32

for something or trying to come up

22:34

with a better word for it because

22:37

the goal is not sustaining where we

22:39

are. It's

22:40

really revolutionizing

22:41

and transforming, like sustaining

22:44

this is not

22:46

going to get us out of it. So anyways, we'll

22:48

use the word for lack of something better. But

22:53

I had, you know, this

22:55

sort of intellectualized, I

22:57

think I love nature. I felt

23:00

connected. I felt better when I was close to

23:02

it. But part of it was a really intellectualized

23:04

relationship. It's like, yes,

23:07

I love the planet. Of course, I

23:09

love the wild. Of course I love trees and

23:11

I love the ocean and I don't want those

23:13

things to die. And but

23:16

really, I think I had

23:19

this whole new transformation

23:21

during the pandemic.

23:23

I was really, I

23:26

recognize like the immense

23:28

amount of privilege to have proximity

23:30

to nature and to be able to be

23:34

in nature during such a traumatic,

23:36

collectively traumatic, continuous

23:39

to be a collectively traumatic time

23:41

for humans. And

23:44

I had that I had an ability to be

23:49

spend time in nature during

23:51

that. And I used

23:53

it as an

23:55

opportunity to kind of like surrender into

24:00

a very different relationship and

24:02

one that included communication

24:05

with it. And I mean, it gets a little, I

24:07

get it, it's gonna sound

24:09

like some like deep hippie stuff

24:12

here, but it was during that

24:14

time that I built this relationship

24:16

and talking to trees, like I'm a

24:18

tree talker. And so I would,

24:20

and I do now, and it's changed

24:23

my life is have this ongoing

24:25

conversation with the trees around

24:27

where I live. And I also do this in the city.

24:30

So I just also wanna put that out there that if you

24:32

aren't in proximity to nature or

24:34

cannot sink yourself

24:36

into a forest, that the trees,

24:39

I also am floored by the trees

24:41

that are in New York City that are growing in

24:43

these tiny little squares of

24:46

the sidewalk and the work that they're doing

24:48

for the humans right now. Anyways,

24:50

it opened up this dialogue

24:53

with nature and I brought

24:55

it in as like a co-creator

24:58

in a way to be like,

25:00

hey, I know fully in my entire being

25:03

that you are rooting for us.

25:05

Like the planet and nature

25:08

as a whole is rooting

25:10

for our survival. I established

25:13

this relationship and it definitely

25:16

transcended the intellectual

25:18

and became deeply intimate.

25:21

Like it became cellular.

25:25

And I think that's the reality of one, a

25:28

knowingness that I'm not alone and

25:30

that there are these kind of unseen

25:33

forces and

25:35

they come from nature that are here to support. They're

25:38

here to co-create with and they

25:40

have everything, they

25:42

will give you everything they can to see a better outcome

25:45

of the experience we're in.

25:47

And I've been accessing that just

25:52

in conversation, like outwardly speaking

25:54

as I'm walking and I'm in gratitude

25:56

for the treaties and I'm relating

25:58

and appreciating. and loving

26:01

nature in this way that it

26:05

just communicates back. Now,

26:07

you are here to deeply

26:09

love and protect something that's asking

26:12

you to do that for them.

26:13

I love this and I think it also just

26:15

speaks

26:16

to the power

26:18

of what you're doing because I think when

26:21

there are so many brands right

26:23

now and so many people in fashion,

26:26

a lot of it can feel like there's

26:29

just an obsession with ideas without

26:31

purpose and you clearly have

26:34

a very defined

26:36

reason of why you're doing this and connection

26:39

larger than yourself, which I think is very

26:41

beautiful. And a lot of the

26:43

decisions that you've made very clearly intentional,

26:47

like your partnership with the

26:49

company Cirque, which is allowing

26:51

you to create dresses that are made of entirely

26:54

recycled fabric. Obviously, that's

26:56

so much in alignment with what you've been wanting to

26:58

do, but I'm curious of what

27:01

that process is like and actually creating a capsule

27:03

with them and how do you see it

27:05

informing everything else that you're doing

27:07

as well. Yeah, this is

27:10

such an exciting collab for us

27:12

and it actually took about five

27:14

years to

27:17

bring it to market. I feel like it's

27:20

this

27:21

exquisite example of where science

27:24

and design need each

27:26

other at this moment. I

27:28

think so much about my

27:30

role and how

27:32

that sits in advocating,

27:34

being like a translator of beauty and that

27:37

that can sometimes be seen as

27:39

a frivolity, especially when we're

27:42

in times of deep crisis, but

27:44

really how important

27:47

beauty is to the

27:49

human experience and to the connectedness

27:52

of transformation. And so when you apply

27:54

that to the work or the science

27:57

and the tech, it is also so exciting

27:59

and happening. right now, it's like when those two

28:01

things get to exist. So

28:05

Cirque is this incredible tech company that

28:07

came up with this innovation

28:10

where they're able to split fibers,

28:13

a poly and cotton blend fiber, and

28:16

that has been an enormous

28:17

roadblock for the industry

28:20

because the majority

28:22

of the clothing that are existing now and in

28:25

landfills are blended

28:27

fibers. So it's one

28:29

thing to be able to recycle like fully

28:32

cotton, right? Or even fully poly,

28:34

like you see in a lot of swimwear, made

28:37

from recycled plastic bottles.

28:43

But the thing about it has been about splitting,

28:45

separating those fibers. And so

28:47

this is why they're so incredible. They've been able to

28:50

come up with that and then take those

28:52

two separated fibers and then re-enter

28:54

them back into the stream and make newness

28:57

from that. So when you really think about

28:59

the potential for that, if we

29:01

could take what already

29:03

exists, we could be making newness

29:06

from our

29:08

garbage, from our waste.

29:10

And that's the

29:12

thing here, that's the circularity,

29:14

right? So the dilemma

29:18

of this sustainability thing when

29:20

you're still manufacturing new is that

29:23

you're still making new stuff that needs to

29:25

get dealt with. But imagine if

29:27

we could only be accessing

29:29

from

29:31

what already has been made. You

29:33

don't need to tap another natural

29:35

resource. You don't need to

29:37

tap the planet for more, right? We've

29:39

got it, we have it. It's already been made.

29:42

And so this dress is, we call

29:46

it the dress that changes everything because

29:48

I think it represents this,

29:51

it's like,

29:53

this is, this can be the future.

29:56

And I am a small player, and

29:59

a very small player.

30:00

But

30:02

if this system is scaled, we're

30:05

looking at a whole different

30:07

landscape. And that's what excites

30:10

me. And that's, I think, why we're usually,

30:13

or very often, tapped to be a

30:16

collaborating brand to bring something first to

30:18

market because we put a lot of passion

30:21

and storytelling and beauty and

30:23

sexiness into

30:26

it. And that tech needs it. So

30:29

yeah, so CERC is amazing. And

30:32

the stress that we made, we made a limited edition, 35

30:34

pieces of it. And

30:37

it's made from 50% post-consumer

30:40

LISL, which is a pulp material

30:42

that is made, and 50% new

30:45

LISL. And

30:47

the goal of this is that once

30:50

they're able to scale, it's 100% recycled. And

30:54

this can be applied in enormous

30:57

ways. Think about these larger scale brands.

31:02

This is the tech that changes the

31:05

planet. So it's exciting.

31:08

And yeah. I'm excited for

31:10

you. And I may be answering my own

31:12

question here, but do you see partnerships

31:14

like this be the middle ground between

31:17

obviously, you know, this is a business

31:19

and brand and you need to grow, but also

31:22

the way that you can keep sustainability

31:24

as a core value? For

31:26

sure. I think the

31:28

whole foundation

31:31

of the sustainability movement

31:33

and fashion is dependent

31:37

on collaboration. It's

31:39

the only way. This can't

31:42

be siloed. It can't be proprietary. It

31:44

can't be in this singular space of

31:46

winning something or being the best at

31:48

it. We

31:52

won sustainability. It's a joke. It

31:55

has to be all in or

31:58

we're not going to do it.

31:59

So, and I

32:01

think that that was the thing that excited

32:03

me the most in the beginning stages

32:06

nine years ago was to see the

32:08

willingness of the people who had been

32:10

in the work before us. They

32:12

were so willing and generous

32:15

with what they knew and what they could

32:17

give to us and now vice versa.

32:20

And you're like, this thing works. It's like one

32:22

boat rises, all boats rise. Like this thing

32:25

only has impact through scale

32:28

and through collaboration. Like there's

32:30

no world, I can't do anything. But I mean, I mean

32:32

that like, what am I going to do? I am

32:35

an independently run company

32:37

that is like, when I say

32:39

the little, what is it? The little engine that could

32:41

or like, we are the scrappiest

32:44

and I'm, and I'm for the record, I'm

32:46

exhausted by the scrappiness at this point.

32:49

And I'm really ready for

32:51

some like true lubrication

32:53

and some true support within my brand.

32:57

Because at a certain point too, like you

32:59

can't do it if you're exhausted by us. And

33:02

so I'm a little bit at that point, to

33:04

be really honest, where I'm like, okay, great,

33:07

we've done all of this, but let's

33:10

go. Like we need support. We

33:12

need like a new paradigm

33:15

of collaboration within the work we're doing.

33:18

And yeah, that's the phase I'm honestly

33:20

in, but the whole thing is based

33:23

on partnerships.

33:23

Yeah.

33:25

I mean, since you've been working

33:27

on this partnership with Cirque for the past five

33:29

years, I'm curious about what your aspirations

33:32

are for the next five years of the brand

33:35

and what you hope other designers

33:37

may be inspired on to do

33:39

based on, you know, the model that you built.

33:42

I've always been not awesome

33:45

at like this, I think

33:47

to like, even my team, it drives them crazy

33:49

where they're like, how many to five years

33:51

that I'm like, let's

33:53

talk about today. But

33:57

it's always been harder for me to be

33:59

really specific. about that vision,

34:01

but it's always helped. And, you know,

34:04

maybe in the therapy space and the spiritual space

34:06

is like, okay, you don't

34:08

have to clarify exactly what it looks

34:11

like or the is of the thing,

34:13

but more of like clarifying the feeling of

34:15

the thing. And if you can get

34:17

the feeling locked in, the

34:20

other parts will fill

34:24

in around that. The feeling

34:26

is the most important. So for me, at this

34:28

point, for the brand,

34:30

again, like I want that lubrication.

34:33

I want the ease. I need

34:35

a little bit of, I would like to feel into

34:37

the ease of what it means to be able

34:40

to move quicker and seamlessly

34:43

with these types of collaborations,

34:45

the initiatives within my own company, the things

34:48

that I know we could be moving

34:50

much quicker at and

34:53

being able to bring to market, being

34:55

able to expand the different

34:57

collaborations, partnerships,

35:00

there's so much, Lindsay, that

35:02

you can be doing in this

35:04

so much. And for us, my

35:06

only limitation is the funds

35:09

to do it. And so that, I'm like, okay,

35:11

ready for that, ready for that part to feel different

35:14

in this next five years,

35:15

for sure.

35:16

And then I think on a

35:20

collective level, it's that

35:22

people are really putting

35:25

kind of their money and their energy

35:27

and their hearts where

35:29

their mouths are. Like a lot of people

35:31

are speaking, and this isn't about me outing

35:35

anybody. I don't care. I mean, I do

35:37

care obviously, but that's not my

35:40

platform. It's more of like, get

35:43

on board. I don't care where you've been.

35:45

I don't care if you're new to it

35:47

today, whatever. And

35:50

also just speaking about like, how do the

35:52

people that have the ability to do so

35:54

support the people that are like burning

35:57

with passion and nickel-house

35:59

and green? And it's like, let's

36:01

link these things together now.

36:03

Yeah.

36:05

Thank you so much. That was such an incredible

36:07

conversation. And I learned so much. I

36:10

was writing some stuff down that I want to research after

36:12

this. Awesome. Yeah. Thanks

36:15

for inviting me to be able to speak to this. It's

36:17

my heart, you know, and it's

36:20

an honor to be able to communicate it.

36:26

Thanks for listening to In Her Shoes. Today's

36:29

episode was produced and edited by Nishat

36:31

Kerbla. Our engineers are Jelani

36:33

Carter and Brandon

36:34

McFarland. I'm your host,

36:36

Lindsay Peebles.

36:37

In Her Shoes is a production of The Cut

36:39

and New York

36:40

Magazine.

36:47

Support for this episode has come from

36:49

eBay.

36:50

You know real when you feel it. And

36:53

with eBay authenticity guarantee, you

36:55

don't have to wonder. You know that every

36:57

inch, stitch, sole, and logo will be checked

37:00

by experts and verified authentic. Maybe

37:02

it's a designer handbag, sneakers that

37:05

pop, jewelry that shines

37:07

as bright as you do. With eBay

37:09

authenticity guarantee, you can trust

37:11

that feeling of real is always

37:13

in reach. Ensure your next purchase

37:16

is a real deal. Visit ebay.com

37:18

for terms.